Week 8 2023 · October 30, 2023
Raiders at Lions, Week 8 2023: who deserved to win?
The Lions beat the Raiders 26–14, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Lions win 9 of 10. The Raiders had the bounces: fumble bounces alone were worth 14 points of win probability to the Raiders.
Before kickoff the Lions were 70% favorites. The biggest swing (Q3, 11:47 left): Return touchdown by the Raiders, worth 25 points of win probability to the Raiders.
Final
| 14 | |
| 26 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +8 Lions about even · −8 Raiders
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Raiders win 1, Lions win 9.
- 1 LV 21 DET 13
- 2 LV 27 DET 30
- 3 LV 16 DET 21
- 4 LV 23 DET 31
- 5 LV 17 DET 28
- 6 LV 17 DET 32
- 7 LV 24 DET 42
- 8 LV 10 DET 32
- 9 LV 21 DET 47
- 10 LV 7 DET 42
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Raiders win 8% of them, Lions 92%, counting the 2% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Lions by 12.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Raiders by 17+ | 0.6% |
| Raiders by 9–16 | 2.2% |
| Raiders by 1–8 | 5.5% |
| Level after regulation | 1.6% |
| Lions by 1–8 | 15.8% |
| Lions by 9–16 | 20.7% |
| Lions by 17+ | 53.6% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- R. Patterson, 44 yds made · 84% expected
- R. Patterson, 31 yds made · 96% expected
- R. Patterson, 33 yds made · 95% expected
- R. Patterson, 52 yds made · 72% expected
- R. Patterson, 26 yds missed · 99% expected
Penalties: Raiders 4 for 40 yards, Lions 5 for 55 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count toward luck, pre-snap fouls mostly don’t. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q2 14:27 | Offensive Holding on the Lions, 10 yards | +4% LV +1.3 pts |
| Q2 12:35 | Delay of Game on the Lions, 5 yards · pre-snap | +3% LV +0.1 pts |
| Q2 7:01 | Low Block on the Lions (Jerry Jacobs), 15 yards | +3% LV +1.3 pts |
| Q3 13:13 | Unsportsmanlike Conduct on the Raiders, 15 yards | +2% DET +1.4 pts |
| Q3 5:29 | False Start on the Raiders (Josh Jacobs), 1 yard · pre-snap | +1% DET +0.7 pts |
| Q3 3:27 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Raiders (Amik Robertson), 18 yards | +3% DET +1.4 pts |
| Q4 11:22 | Defensive Offside on the Raiders (Maxx Crosby), 6 yards · pre-snap | +2% DET +1.6 pts |
| Q4 9:49 | Roughing the Passer on the Lions (Jack Campbell), 15 yards | +2% LV +1.8 pts |
| Q4 5:25 | Offensive Holding on the Lions, 10 yards, wiping out the play | +1% LV +2.4 pts |
Raiders penalties, every game · Lions penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Lions’ chance of winning
As low as 46% and as high as 100%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 5:10 | The Lions fumbled and the Raiders recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +8% LV | DET: Punt |
| 2 | Q1 4:59 | The Raiders threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 48% expected to stay out of the defense's hands | +6% DET | LV: Turnover on downs |
| 3 | Q1 2:36 | The Raiders were stopped on 4th & 23rd & 4th downs · 58% expected | +9% DET | LV: Punt |
| 4 | Q1 0:22 | The Lions converted 3rd & 113rd & 4th downs · 25% expected | +7% DET | DET: Field goal |
| 5 | Q3 11:47 | The Lions threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 48% expected to stay out of the defense's handsReturn touchdown by the RaidersSpecial teams | +25% LV | DET: Turnover |
| 6 | Q3 10:00 | The Lions converted 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 39% expected | +6% DET | DET: Turnover |
| 7 | Q3 5:52 | The Lions fumbled and the Raiders recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +9% LV | DET: Touchdown |
| 8 | Q3 4:19 | The Raiders were stopped on 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 39% expectedD. Adams dropped a catchable passDrops · 9 drops on 181 catchable balls before this | +12% DET | LV: Punt |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Frank Ragnow (DET C), out · 0.8 pts
- Jonah Jackson (DET G), out · 0.4 pts
- David Montgomery (DET RB), out · 0.4 pts
- Halapoulivaati Vaitai (DET G), out · 0.2 pts
- Divine Deablo (LV LB), out · 0.4 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Raiders 2% · Lions 98%
- Final margin
- Lions by 12
- Luck in points
- 3.4 for the Raiders
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Lions by 15.4
- Replay with same day's form
- Raiders 8% · Lions 92% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 8 2023 games ·
Raiders ·
Lions
More from Week 8 2023
- Buccaneers at Bills BUF 24–18 · replay 99% for the winner
- Falcons at Titans TEN 28–23 · replay 48% for the winner
- Texans at Panthers CAR 15–13 · replay 44% for the winner
- Jaguars at Steelers JAX 20–10 · replay 92% for the winner
- Rams at Cowboys DAL 43–20 · replay 85% for the winner
- Vikings at Packers MIN 24–10 · replay 93% for the winner
- Patriots at Dolphins MIA 31–17 · replay 96% for the winner
- Saints at Colts NO 38–27 · replay 88% for the winner
- Jets at Giants NYJ 13–10 · replay 68% for the winner
- Eagles at Commanders PHI 38–31 · replay 41% for the winner
- Browns at Seahawks SEA 24–20 · replay 43% for the winner
- Ravens at Cardinals BAL 31–24 · replay 65% for the winner
- Bengals at 49ers CIN 31–17 · replay 14% for the winner
- Chiefs at Broncos DEN 24–9 · replay 39% for the winner
- Bears at Chargers LAC 30–13 · replay 63% for the winner