Week 8 2023 · October 29, 2023
Vikings at Packers, Week 8 2023: who deserved to win?
The Vikings beat the Packers 24–10, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Vikings win 9 of 10. The Packers had the bounces: kicks alone were worth 19 points of win probability to the Packers.
Before kickoff it was a pick’em. The biggest swing (Q1, 7:11 left): G. Joseph missed 42-yard field goal, worth 12 points of win probability to the Packers.
Final
| 24 | |
| 10 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +7 Vikings about even · −7 Packers
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Vikings win 9, Packers win 1.
- 1 MIN 41 GB 10
- 2 MIN 30 GB 6
- 3 MIN 23 GB 3
- 4 MIN 30 GB 13
- 5 MIN 31 GB 17
- 6 MIN 21 GB 10
- 7 MIN 22 GB 14
- 8 MIN 12 GB 6
- 9 MIN 23 GB 20
- 10 MIN 17 GB 23
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Vikings win 93% of them, Packers 7%, counting the 1% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Vikings by 14.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Vikings by 17+ | 52.7% |
| Vikings by 9–16 | 23.4% |
| Vikings by 1–8 | 16.2% |
| Level after regulation | 1.3% |
| Packers by 1–8 | 5.1% |
| Packers by 9–16 | 1.3% |
| Packers by 17+ | 0.1% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- G. Joseph, 42 yds missed · 81% expected
- G. Joseph, 25 yds made · 97% expected
- A. Carlson, 30 yds made · 95% expected
- G. Joseph, 44 yds blocked · 77% expected
Penalties: Vikings 7 for 35 yards, Packers 11 for 99 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count toward luck, pre-snap fouls mostly don’t. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q1 14:01 | Ineligible Downfield Pass on the Packers, 4 yards, wiping out the play | +8% MIN +3.2 pts |
| Q1 13:37 | Defensive Offside on the Vikings (Jordan Hicks), 4 yards · pre-snap | +3% GB +1.9 pts |
| Q1 12:49 | False Start on the Packers (Corey Ballentine), 5 yards · pre-snap | +3% MIN +1.3 pts |
| Q1 4:58 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Packers, 15 yards, wiping out the play | +4% GB +1.2 pts |
| Q1 4:54 | Roughing the Passer on the Packers (Kingsley Enagbare), 15 yards | +5% MIN +0.7 pts |
| Q1 2:38 | Delay of Game on the Vikings, 5 yards · pre-snap | +1% GB +0.8 pts |
| Q1 0:26 | Delay of Game on the Packers, 5 yards · pre-snap | 0% MIN +0.3 pts |
| Q2 14:53 | Illegal Use of Hands on the Packers (Rasul Douglas), 5 yards, wiping out the play | 0% GB +0.1 pts |
| Q2 9:34 | Offensive Holding on the Packers, 10 yards | +5% MIN +1.5 pts |
| Q2 2:35 | Defensive Too Many Men on Field on the Vikings, 5 yards, wiping out the play · pre-snap | +3% MIN +0.4 pts |
| Q2 2:31 | Offensive Pass Interference on the Packers (Christian Watson), 10 yards | +3% MIN +1.1 pts |
| Q2 0:05 | Defensive Offside on the Vikings (Jay Ward), 5 yards · pre-snap | 0% MIN +0.5 pts |
| Q3 3:57 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Vikings (Akayleb Evans), 6 yards | +2% GB +2.2 pts |
| Q3 3:23 | Neutral Zone Infraction on the Vikings (Jonathan Bullard), 0 yards · pre-snap | 0% GB 0.0 pts |
| Q3 2:39 | Offensive Holding on the Vikings (Ivan Pace), 10 yards | +1% GB +1.0 pts |
| Q4 15:00 | Roughing the Passer on the Packers (Rashan Gary), 15 yards | +1% MIN +1.7 pts |
| Q4 2:53 | Offensive Holding on the Packers (Eric Wilson), 10 yards | +1% MIN +0.9 pts |
| Q4 2:22 | False Start on the Packers, 5 yards · pre-snap | 0% MIN +0.4 pts |
Vikings penalties, every game · Packers penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Packers’ chance of winning
As low as 0% and as high as 56%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 14:01 | Ineligible Downfield Pass on the Packers, 4 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls | +8% MIN | MIN: Missed field goal |
| 2 | Q1 11:53 | The Vikings converted 3rd & 83rd & 4th downs · 30% expected | +6% MIN | MIN: Missed field goal |
| 3 | Q1 7:11 | G. Joseph missed 42-yard field goalKicks · 81% expected for him | +12% GB | MIN: Touchdown |
| 4 | Q2 13:56 | The Vikings converted 3rd & 83rd & 4th downs · 31% expected | +8% MIN | MIN: Field goal |
| 5 | Q2 9:34 | Offensive Holding on the Packers, 10 yardsJudgment calls | +5% MIN | MIN: Punt |
| 6 | Q2 3:36 | The Packers fumbled and recovered it themselvesFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +6% GB | GB: Field goal |
| 7 | Q3 14:28 | The Vikings converted 3rd & 93rd & 4th downs · 29% expected | +9% MIN | MIN: Touchdown |
| 8 | Q4 6:01 | The Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 83rd & 4th downs · 31% expectedThe Vikings fumbled and the Packers recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +10% GB | MIN: Punt |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- David Bakhtiari (GB T), out (IR) · 1.3 pts
- Justin Jefferson (MIN WR), out (IR) · 1.8 pts
- Ezra Cleveland (MIN G), out · 0.4 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Vikings 100% · Packers 0%
- Final margin
- Vikings by 14
- Luck in points
- 7.9 for the Packers
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Vikings by 21.9
- Replay with same day's form
- Vikings 93% · Packers 7% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 8 2023 games ·
Vikings ·
Packers
More from Week 8 2023
- Buccaneers at Bills BUF 24–18 · replay 99% for the winner
- Falcons at Titans TEN 28–23 · replay 48% for the winner
- Texans at Panthers CAR 15–13 · replay 44% for the winner
- Jaguars at Steelers JAX 20–10 · replay 92% for the winner
- Rams at Cowboys DAL 43–20 · replay 85% for the winner
- Patriots at Dolphins MIA 31–17 · replay 96% for the winner
- Saints at Colts NO 38–27 · replay 88% for the winner
- Jets at Giants NYJ 13–10 · replay 68% for the winner
- Eagles at Commanders PHI 38–31 · replay 41% for the winner
- Browns at Seahawks SEA 24–20 · replay 43% for the winner
- Ravens at Cardinals BAL 31–24 · replay 65% for the winner
- Bengals at 49ers CIN 31–17 · replay 14% for the winner
- Chiefs at Broncos DEN 24–9 · replay 39% for the winner
- Bears at Chargers LAC 30–13 · replay 63% for the winner
- Raiders at Lions DET 26–14 · replay 92% for the winner