Week 8 2023 · October 29, 2023
Texans at Panthers, Week 8 2023: who deserved to win?
The Panthers beat the Texans 15–13, but it was a coin flip: replayed with the way both teams played, the Panthers win 4 of 10. Luck ran their way: judgment calls alone were worth 51 points of win probability to the Panthers.
Before kickoff the Texans were 59% favorites. The biggest swing (Q4, 0:03 left): Unnecessary Roughness on the Texans (Tavierre Thomas), 10 yards, worth 29 points of win probability to the Panthers.
Final
| 13 | |
| 15 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +56 Panthers lucky · −56 Texans
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Texans win 6, Panthers win 4.
- 1 HOU 25 CAR 7
- 2 HOU 21 CAR 8
- 3 HOU 13 CAR 3
- 4 HOU 17 CAR 10
- 5 HOU 7 CAR 3
- 6 HOU 20 CAR 17
- 7 HOU 21 CAR 23
- 8 HOU 7 CAR 12
- 9 HOU 3 CAR 14
- 10 HOU 9 CAR 27
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Texans win 56% of them, Panthers 44%, counting the 7% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Panthers by 2.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Texans by 17+ | 9.3% |
| Texans by 9–16 | 15.8% |
| Texans by 1–8 | 24.6% |
| Level after regulation | 6.8% |
| Panthers by 1–8 | 23.0% |
| Panthers by 9–16 | 13.4% |
| Panthers by 17+ | 7.2% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- E. Pineiro, 46 yds made · 78% expected
- E. Pineiro, 37 yds made · 90% expected
- E. Pineiro, 23 yds made · 99% expected
- Extra point missed · 93% expected
Penalties: Texans 10 for 70 yards, Panthers 3 for 20 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count toward luck, pre-snap fouls mostly don’t. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q1 13:47 | Offensive Holding on the Panthers, 9 yards | +2% HOU +0.8 pts |
| Q1 13:04 | Offensive Holding on the Panthers (Tommy Tremble), 1 yard, wiping out the play | +4% HOU +1.7 pts |
| Q1 7:45 | Offensive Holding on the Texans, 7 yards | +2% CAR +0.6 pts |
| Q2 12:25 | Face Mask on the Texans (Jonathan Greenard), 15 yards, wiping out the play | +10% CAR +3.8 pts |
| Q2 4:40 | Defensive Holding on the Texans (Ka'dar Hollman), 5 yards, wiping out the play | +10% CAR +2.4 pts |
| Q2 2:01 | Encroachment on the Texans (Kurt Hinish), 5 yards · pre-snap | +1% HOU +0.5 pts |
| Q2 2:00 | Offensive Holding on the Panthers, 10 yards | +4% HOU +1.5 pts |
| Q3 6:29 | Ineligible Downfield Pass on the Texans, 5 yards, wiping out the play | +13% CAR +2.7 pts |
| Q4 6:28 | Delay of Game on the Texans, 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% CAR +0.6 pts |
| Q4 5:44 | Defensive Offside on the Texans (Will Anderson), 5 yards · pre-snap | +1% CAR +0.7 pts |
| Q4 5:40 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Texans (Shaquill Griffin), 8 yards | +2% CAR +0.4 pts |
| Q4 0:03 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Texans (Tavierre Thomas), 10 yards | +16% CAR 0.0 pts |
| Q4 0:03 | Unsportsmanlike Conduct on the Texans (Tavierre Thomas), 5 yards | +4% CAR +0.7 pts |
Texans penalties, every game · Panthers penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Panthers’ chance of winning
As low as 27% and as high as 100%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q2 12:25 | Face Mask on the Texans (Jonathan Greenard), 15 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 4 flags in 1412 snaps before, position avg 1 per 295 | +10% CAR | CAR: Turnover on downs |
| 2 | Q2 4:40 | Defensive Holding on the Texans (Ka'dar Hollman), 5 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 2 flags in 461 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216 | +10% CAR | CAR: Touchdown |
| 3 | Q2 1:39 | The Panthers converted 3rd & 13rd & 4th downs · 65% expected | +9% CAR | CAR: Touchdown |
| 4 | Q3 6:29 | Ineligible Downfield Pass on the Texans, 5 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls | +13% CAR | CAR: Punt |
| 5 | Q3 0:42 | The Texans converted 4th & 13rd & 4th downs · 64% expected | +10% HOU | HOU: Touchdown |
| 6 | Q4 3:22 | The Panthers converted 4th & 23rd & 4th downs · 58% expected | +12% CAR | CAR: Field goal |
| 7 | Q4 0:22 | The Panthers were stopped on 3rd & 93rd & 4th downs · 27% expected | +9% HOU | CAR: Field goal |
| 8 | Q4 0:03 | E. Pineiro made 23-yard field goalKicks · 99% expected for himUnnecessary Roughness on the Texans (Tavierre Thomas), 10 yardsJudgment calls · 8 flags in 2573 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216Unsportsmanlike Conduct on the Texans (Tavierre Thomas), 5 yardsJudgment calls · 8 flags in 2573 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216 | +29% CAR | CAR: Field goal |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Vonn Bell (CAR SS), out · 0.6 pts
- Jeremy Chinn (CAR FS), out (IR) · 0.6 pts
- Brady Christensen (CAR T), out (IR) · 0.5 pts
- Yetur Gross-Matos (CAR DE), out (IR) · 0.5 pts
- Shaq Thompson (CAR LB), out (IR) · 0.4 pts
- Yetur Gross-Matos (CAR LB), out (IR) · 0.2 pts
- Robert Woods (HOU WR), out · 0.7 pts
- Scott Quessenberry (HOU C), out (IR) · 0.3 pts
- Sheldon Rankins (HOU DT), out · 0.3 pts
- Kendrick Green (HOU C), out (IR) · 0.2 pts
- Kenyon Green (HOU G), out (IR) · 0.2 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Texans 40% · Panthers 60%
- Final margin
- Panthers by 2
- Luck in points
- 0.7 for the Texans
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Panthers by 2.7
- Replay with same day's form
- Texans 56% · Panthers 44% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 8 2023 games ·
Texans ·
Panthers
More from Week 8 2023
- Buccaneers at Bills BUF 24–18 · replay 99% for the winner
- Falcons at Titans TEN 28–23 · replay 48% for the winner
- Jaguars at Steelers JAX 20–10 · replay 92% for the winner
- Rams at Cowboys DAL 43–20 · replay 85% for the winner
- Vikings at Packers MIN 24–10 · replay 93% for the winner
- Patriots at Dolphins MIA 31–17 · replay 96% for the winner
- Saints at Colts NO 38–27 · replay 88% for the winner
- Jets at Giants NYJ 13–10 · replay 68% for the winner
- Eagles at Commanders PHI 38–31 · replay 41% for the winner
- Browns at Seahawks SEA 24–20 · replay 43% for the winner
- Ravens at Cardinals BAL 31–24 · replay 65% for the winner
- Bengals at 49ers CIN 31–17 · replay 14% for the winner
- Chiefs at Broncos DEN 24–9 · replay 39% for the winner
- Bears at Chargers LAC 30–13 · replay 63% for the winner
- Raiders at Lions DET 26–14 · replay 92% for the winner