Week 4 2023 · September 28, 2023
Lions at Packers, Week 4 2023: who deserved to win?
The Lions beat the Packers 34–20, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Lions win 9 of 10.
Before kickoff the Lions were 57% favorites. The biggest swing (Q1, 13:44 left): the Lions were stopped on 3rd & 12, worth 15 points of win probability to the Packers.
Final
| 34 | |
| 20 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +6 Lions about even · −6 Packers
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Lions win 9, Packers win 1.
- 1 DET 36 GB 3
- 2 DET 33 GB 7
- 3 DET 40 GB 20
- 4 DET 41 GB 24
- 5 DET 37 GB 23
- 6 DET 34 GB 22
- 7 DET 34 GB 26
- 8 DET 36 GB 30
- 9 DET 26 GB 23
- 10 DET 22 GB 30
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Lions win 94% of them, Packers 6%, counting the 1% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Lions by 14.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Lions by 17+ | 60.7% |
| Lions by 9–16 | 22.5% |
| Lions by 1–8 | 10.4% |
| Level after regulation | 0.7% |
| Packers by 1–8 | 4.0% |
| Packers by 9–16 | 1.4% |
| Packers by 17+ | 0.5% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- A. Carlson, 34 yds made · 93% expected
- R. Patterson, 33 yds made · 94% expected
- R. Patterson, 37 yds made · 91% expected
- A. Carlson, 50 yds made · 71% expected
Penalties: Lions 8 for 70 yards, Packers 4 for 31 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count toward luck, pre-snap fouls mostly don’t. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q1 7:21 | False Start on the Packers (Kingsley Enagbare), 5 yards · pre-snap | +1% DET +0.2 pts |
| Q2 14:22 | Offensive Holding on the Lions, 10 yards | +3% GB +1.2 pts |
| Q2 14:07 | Offensive Holding on the Packers (Dallin Leavitt), 10 yards | +2% DET +0.7 pts |
| Q2 11:01 | Offensive Holding on the Lions, 10 yards, wiping out the play | +2% GB +1.4 pts |
| Q2 9:58 | False Start on the Lions, 5 yards · pre-snap | 0% DET +0.3 pts |
| Q2 7:51 | Neutral Zone Infraction on the Lions (Jerry Jacobs), 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% GB +1.0 pts |
| Q2 0:07 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Lions (Jerry Jacobs), 9 yards | 0% GB +0.1 pts |
| Q3 15:00 | Offensive Holding on the Packers (Josiah Deguara), 10 yards | +1% DET +1.1 pts |
| Q3 12:23 | Illegal Use of Hands on the Lions (Aidan Hutchinson), 5 yards | 0% DET +0.2 pts |
| Q3 11:50 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Lions (Alex Anzalone), 16 yards | +2% GB +2.0 pts |
| Q3 5:04 | Offensive Holding on the Lions (Jalen Reeves-Maybin), 10 yards | +1% GB +1.2 pts |
| Q4 8:13 | Leaping on the Packers (Quay Walker), 6 yards | +1% DET +2.2 pts |
Lions penalties, every game · Packers penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Packers’ chance of winning
As low as 0% and as high as 72%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 13:44 | The Lions were stopped on 3rd & 123rd & 4th downs · 24% expectedThe Lions threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 46% expected to stay out of the defense's hands | +15% GB | DET: Touchdown |
| 2 | Q1 9:04 | The Lions converted 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 40% expected | +14% DET | DET: Touchdown |
| 3 | Q1 7:30 | The Packers got away with an interception-worthy throwInterceptions · 47% expected to stay out of the defense's hands | +5% GB | GB: Punt |
| 4 | Q1 6:23 | The Lions converted 3rd & 33rd & 4th downs · 51% expected | +6% DET | DET: Touchdown |
| 5 | Q1 1:31 | The Packers were stopped on 3rd & 33rd & 4th downs · 48% expected | +4% DET | GB: Punt |
| 6 | Q2 14:22 | Offensive Holding on the Lions, 10 yardsJudgment calls | +3% GB | GB: Turnover |
| 7 | Q2 14:15 | The Lions were stopped on 3rd & 143rd & 4th downs · 22% expected | +3% GB | DET: Field goal |
| 8 | Q2 14:10 | R. Patterson made 33-yard field goalKicks · 94% expected for him | +5% DET | DET: Touchdown |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- David Bakhtiari (GB T), out (IR) · 1.3 pts
- Jaire Alexander (GB CB), out · 0.9 pts
- Elgton Jenkins (GB G), out · 0.5 pts
- De'Vondre Campbell (GB LB), out · 0.5 pts
- Kerby Joseph (DET SS), out · 0.9 pts
- Kerby Joseph (DET FS), out · 0.8 pts
- Halapoulivaati Vaitai (DET G), out · 0.2 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Lions 100% · Packers 0%
- Final margin
- Lions by 14
- Luck in points
- 5.8 for the Packers
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Lions by 19.8
- Replay with same day's form
- Lions 94% · Packers 6% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 4 2023 games ·
Lions ·
Packers
More from Week 4 2023
- Falcons vs Jaguars JAX 23–7 · replay 80% for the winner
- Ravens at Browns BAL 28–3 · replay 94% for the winner
- Bengals at Titans TEN 27–3 · replay 43% for the winner
- Broncos at Bears DEN 31–28 · replay 34% for the winner
- Rams at Colts LA 29–23 · replay 77% for the winner
- Dolphins at Bills BUF 48–20 · replay 98% for the winner
- Vikings at Panthers MIN 21–13 · replay 93% for the winner
- Steelers at Texans HOU 30–6 · replay 87% for the winner
- Buccaneers at Saints TB 26–9 · replay 87% for the winner
- Commanders at Eagles PHI 34–31 · replay 89% for the winner
- Raiders at Chargers LAC 24–17 · replay 89% for the winner
- Cardinals at 49ers SF 35–16 · replay 93% for the winner
- Patriots at Cowboys DAL 38–3 · replay 98% for the winner
- Chiefs at Jets KC 23–20 · replay 82% for the winner
- Seahawks at Giants SEA 24–3 · replay 89% for the winner